Ron Knauer on There is Always Something to Prove

you know, we're down in Hilton head, she looked around, she says, Dad, would you ever imagine you had this success?

I said, not my wildest dreams, man. Not my wildest dreams. Of being a little kid growing up, you know, in Greencastle, Indiana. You know, 10,000 people.

you know, most of my relatives don't walk erect. Kind of like cavemen. you look at that and say, there's I I think I beat the odds.

I have to do something different to stand out. And so actually I I put on my best suit I had, shined my shoes, put on the white shirt.

you know, the whole nine yards and drove to Louisville, Kentucky and sat in the office of the IBM office and I knew the hiring branch manager who it was. So I showed up at eight o'clock in the morning and I said, I'm here to see Mr. Jackson. Well he's in a meeting right now. I go, Okay, I'll wait. I said, I'm here to inquire about this position and I'll wait here. So I sat there till four thirty in the afternoon.

430. the secretary says, he'll see you now. Great. So I go in, I stand up in front of him. He's an old southern gentleman, right? He's got bib, you know, the suspenders on, leaning back, white hair. He goes, All right, you got two minutes. What do you want? And I told him, I said, you know, I'm a candidate for this position, and I came here to close the deal.

I said, I want this job more. I need it more than anybody you've interviewed. And I'll prove that to you if you give me the chance. So you can tell me today or you can tell me tomorrow if it's yes or no, but I need to know I'm getting married in 30 days, and I need this job and I want a chance. And you lean back. I don't know if you knew anything about Office Products Division and IBM. They were the sales dudes.

On the streets selling copiers, selling typewriters, door to door, knocking on doors, right? Vacuum cleaner sales, but for IBM, the blue suits and the ties, you know, it's like mad men kind of thing, right? And he goes, I'll be right back. He goes back and gets two of the sales managers, or at least both of them are 6'6, 6'7, Jerry Von Dilligan and Ken Kirchhoff. I remember today.

They said, tell them what you just told me. And I told him the same story. I said, all I want's a chance. And I want it more than anybody else. He said, call me at 8:30 in the morning. I left. And my brother lived there. So we're heading back to Cincinnati early that day, and for some reason, and they called him, he goes, You got the job.

Because I I swear to God, Brad, I wouldn't have gotten a job at IBM if I hadn't done that. And to this day,

I tried to do that in my profession.

In my sales career and what I did with customer relationships, to deal orientation, to strategy, to anything I said from a success that you targeted your success on. Said, why do the same when you can be different and win more?

You

too, Brad. You too, my friend. Good to see you too.

Greencastle, Indiana.

Sure, sure. And first of all, thanks for having me. it's it's great to see a friend again. So yeah, grew up in a really small town, Greencastle, Indiana, it's about forty miles west in Indianapolis on interstate seventy four, I think, or seventy, whatever it is, going west to to Kansas. But yeah, a town of about ten thousand people.

You know, it was very simple living from a standpoint of very humble upbringings. The my grandparents were there, both sets of grandparents were there. my parents were born in that area as well, a long history of Knauers have resided there and have remained there for a long, long time. So very simple means my grandparents were farmers in there and actually

One one fact that my father had always told me you know, he grew up without running water and electricity until he was about ten years old. So, you know, you think about that. my father, you know, was you know, he born in nineteen thirty-three and did not have running water electricity, you can imagine the means that they had and the farmers that they had to be to survive with four boys. So lived in Greencastle for my first I'll say eight years of my life.

elementary school there and it was again something very simple my dad delivered bread door to door for a living and milk and bread at the Omore Bakery in Greencastle believe it or not and so at the time he had a chance to go to work for IBM they had a processing card processing plant in Greencastle for a long long time

took a repair job on a printing press at night. that's where he started his IBM career there in Greencastle. and at one time he had an opportunity to move to Cincinnati and small boy, small town boy. And the unique thing about my my upbringing is my grandparents did not graduate from high school. They had fourth and fifth grade educations. My parents had high school education

My brother and I, I just have one sibling, is an older brother of the first Knauers in history to have a college degree. So we're very proud of that. And so moving to Cincinnati from a small town boy to going to inner city schools in Cincinnati was quite quite the challenge and quite the change. you fought your way onto the bus and you fought your way off the bus. and so it was a little tough moving into inner cities of Cincinnati. that

didn't work too well for us. So we moved back to Greencastle and stayed there for another five or six months and then ironically moved back to Cincinnati. So moved three times in a year and moved to the west side of Cincinnati and in a predominantly blue-collar area.

and went to elementary school there and high school, played three sports in high school and really focused on baseball. And that was kind of my my gift, if you will, and enabled me to go to college and play baseball at Indiana State and Ohio State. And so with all the travel and baseball I was really behind in school and so and at that time I had had a sweetheart

for a long time. And actually she's still my sweetheart. and in two weeks it will be our forty fifth wedding anniversary. So

that's a long time forty five years, but it's been well worth that and the prizes that I have are the three people behind me and s some of their children too so it it's well well worth it on that aspect. But after Ohio State

I did I was a catcher. I was a catcher,

you can tell by the my face, right? I was a catcher. but the so had some knee issues and at that time in you know nineteen what eighty one, eighty, arthropic surgery was nonexistent and they so anyway I had to stop playing baseball and had a knee problem and

decided to really get serious about school. I was so far behind. I was eighty credit hours behind or getting grad to graduate and I took eighty hours and four quarters and graduated from Ohio State and got married thirty days later. So there the pressure was on. The pressure was on and I think that

some of the drive and desire that I got from that was from that upbringing that I mentioned. And at the time, I even borrowed money from my parents to at me to for the engagement ring. So asked my my bride to to marry me and I I was painting lines on parking lots at night to for money. So you go to work at midnight, you get you know work till 7 a.m because you can't paint lines on parking lots where the cars are there.

so had an opportunity knew there was an opportunity at IBM for an entry very entry level position and painting lines at night got got got a little tiresome, got

couldn't get the paint off my clothes, you know, that kind of thing. But

Well, the job was in Louisville. My brother also worked at IBM. So I had a kind of a little bit of an end or insights about the openings in in respective areas. And so I knew there were over seventy applicants for it. And thus I knew because of my I guess my scholastic achievements, I was probably not on top of the list. But I knew I had to do something different, unique and stand out. And

So

Email. Right.

W i it it

w it was it was a long day. You know, people come and go. and that was the early IBM, the dark suits, white shirts,

dark ties, shine shoes, tight haircuts.

on the people coming and going. it's a true sales environment and I'm very fortunate to get hired at IBM and began that like I said thirty days before I got married and so it was long, tiresome

People asking going by young professionals, older guys, ladies, and saying, you know, do you sure you wanna wait? I said, yes, I do wanna wait. And so don't really recall the actual thoughts, but I know I was nervous as hell, for sure.

No, I don't. I I would have been still painting lights on parking lots, but selling cars or suing something else. no, I wouldn't have been considered. I I'm sure I was on the bottom of the pile or close to the bottom. I did have some upper hand a little bit, but they knew my dad and my new and I knew my brother.

So without their performance or at least reputation of being a good person, a good IBMer, I wouldn't have had chance.

I mean, actually, it came from my brother's idea. He goes, Have you ever thought about doing something really different? Because you need to stand up. And I took that as an advice, rehearsed it, heard what I was going to say, put on the blue suit, shine the shoes, cut the hair, and said, I'm gonna try it. I learned a lot by that because I instilled that in my approaches for many things, particularly through my.

my executive career and my sales career of being unique and being able to you know look back and understand what got me there and made those successes come true.

In 1981, I stayed for five years. got a ri I was selling copiers and

typewriters, and actually I was a system engineer, and for those who know me, that's a technical aspect for it. And it was the Office Products Division, and which were known as the true salesmen of IBM.

And the uniqueness of that is that where I look back on the mentors that I had in the office products division of how to do it, what to do, customer focus, how to be, you know, to have a good story. What's your story? And ensure that that value you give is within yourself. And so

successful, you know, first six years, 100% club every year, which is I was a rookie year, copy of marketing. and then I was hired away from IBM, actually, and moved to Atlanta, Georgia for NYNEX. And was in there

Mm-hmm.

It it was very difficult, very difficult. and it it was at IBM they wouldn't let you call in a customer for a year until you went through all the training, all the leadership, all the technical aspects, all the mentorship, and then they might let you go call in customer. But after the first year, then you got you got numbers to meet.

And so uniquely I took claim to being a sales plan lawyer, if you will.

So understand how you're paid. And I think you and I went through that with when we work together as well to leverage the sales plan and understand how you get to a point to achievement and quota achievement. And at IBM, that's serious thing. And if you don't make numbers, you're not there. And that's the way it should be in most sales organizations. and that's the way it is, and some more patient and some not so patient.

in getting those numbers. So I had the recognition,

You know, I had a a newborn then at that time and wanted to make some more money. as you know, Brad, I've been highly motivated by money through

my care through my career. And to be able to achieve that, yeah, to do that and my wife stay at home and we made that conscious decision that I was gonna be the the hor the money horse and she was gonna make the home a pleasant place.

So went to Atlanta. Went to Atlanta.

I was a a corporate you know staffer, if you will, supporting mid-range systems and traveled throughout the United States, educated. It's NYNEX. It was

NYNEX Business Centers and that was part of the the PC worlds. And they're PC real sellers. Remember business land and computer land and all

those.

And so yeah, I and actually at IBM I sold some of the very first IBM PCs. So the PC one seventy six was against the Apple, you know, computer. And so the dual floppy and the green monochrome screens

and you know dot matrix printers.

It was highly advanced from copiers, but that was kind of the uniqueness of of that particular role. so and then actually I live in Cincinnati, as you know, and I was given the opportunity. We had 90 branch offices, and I was given a choice of multiple branch offices, obviously the ones on the bottom. They didn't need a replacement area manager, branch manager for the ones on the top.

And Cincinnati was one of them. And we decided we just yeah, what do we want to go back to Cincinnati or not? and

we were high school sweethearts. So

I guess yes. But but yeah, we went to high school together. she's from Cincinnati as well.

So we came back to Cincinnati and we we thought we were gonna be here for about a year and a half. And this is the 37th year we've been here. from there, you know, it was actually I went back to IBM and stayed for another 11 years after that, and did a lot of business development, closure, and in the outsourcing world.

And that's when you know you and I met after that and really into the services orientation of of IT and I knew that was going to be the place to be. You know, the higher margins, capabilities, what we had as an organization, put the customer first and do that in a very unique, never quit way, it panned out pretty well.

and then I was recruited to go to Hewlett Packard. And I felt I was getting somewhat stiff armed because at IBM to go into the levels of IBM to the senior executive levels. So I went to HP and stayed for eleven years at HP and had a fen

that's after Comdisco. Comdisco

You know, that the that's you know, the orientation towards the disaster recovery continuity leasing business, as you know that was that was a good business too, right? and so successful there.

true, I was I was seeking to continue up the ladder, if you will. And and I had felt that I had proven I had reached that level. I knew I had the accomplishments of many more than many others and I was being passed by. And so at that point HP came calling.

And it was a very unique and it's HP ES or the enterprise services aspect of HP. And so began doing a lot of business development for North and South America, where my global travels really started, was there. Some at IBM, but really at HP. And so had the opportunity to really work on some very, very large accounts, lead some very, very large opportunities from hundreds of

millions and billions of dollars in total outsourcing from hardware, software, services, people, you know, land, you know, assets, multiple countries, very, very you had to have 300 people on your deal team kind of thing. It's very complex, maybe two years to close the deal. And so I became known for closure and winning.

that's gets addictive.

Yeah.

Correct. Change life it's a life changer. It's a life changer.

That's correct. Yes.

Well, I I I can tell you the way I felt the day before the customer side. I knew I was my wife and I were going out to dinner, I believe, or was something like that. And my people use the phrase mind numbing, brain numbing. I was sitting there and your brain was just numb because you thought about every word, every condit term is a condition, the customer, and it was just numbed your mind.

When the customer called me the next morning and said you can come pick up your contract. I was like, really? That this that just happened? And so you get the contract, you come back, I think you and and you know our other counterparts were in the office, you know, everybody's high-fiving, right? And I said, I'm gonna go home for a while.

because there was no time off doing that and you know that when you're doing big deals and transacting no time off. Seven by twenty-four. it was like you come home, you say, That's a life changer. That is a life changer where you don't have to worry about paying for college, you don't have to worry about, you know, those things that most people worry about. You got a great job, you just landed, you know, a you know, a very, very large services to the other you're gonna get paid very well for.

And you know, and I worked the comp plan based on the deal, so I maximized the earnings as well. so I took that concept and really moved that forward into the into my other roles.

It it's not.

Well, y y you you do in

your own mind, but you always continue to prove yourself to everyone else. Right? you always have to prove yourself to the customer. So you're always proving. And you know, the things that you know the and I think the the thing that I've always said, you kinda measure the person the size of their heart.

And the size of the heart is you know, I was like I said, I was also a catcher, so kinda hard headed too. So like to call my own game, call my own signals and put that into play it made me better. Wanting more wanting more. And so I wanted to be, you know, i you know, like like I said, winning's a passion, winning's addictive.

And once you get it, you get that, you know, addiction, you don't want to go backwards. You don't want to lose. And in the and the teams that I've led, the the the teams I've put together, and they said, If if you can't think we can win, I don't want you on the team. And so I would always ask my new team members, I said, Who in the room? Maybe twenty or thirty people in the room.

Who thinks we we can't win this deal? And then two or three people might raise their hand or half a dozen. It might c just could be an RFP. and I then and I said, Well okay, I tell you what, you're all dismissed from being in this room.

Or you can go away and I'll tell your managers that you don't want to play because you don't think we can win. Or you can go home today and come back tomorrow and tell me how you think we can win. It was always unanimous. They never wanted their manager to find out they didn't think they could win. And so we always set the cornerstone of we gotta win. We gotta find a way to win. And like I said, is understanding the client and you know giving a chance, you know, stick your foot in that door.

And you know, just you know, you just have the best people around you that think you're gonna win, and then you show the leadership aspect of where the client fits and how they fit in your company, and all the value is set centered on them, not the company itself. It comes out on top a lot. So that's that's kind of was my focus, who you put first.

one saying I I'll give you that I was taught by one of my man one of my really great mentors, he said, pay attention to the little things. All things are little. So which is really unique and I've always, you know, said said that to the people I've worked with. So don't let the little things go by because all things are little.

he was, actually. He was the one that recruited me to go to NYNEX Business Centers, actually.

Right.

Still San

Kywith is one of the best entrepreneurs I've met. his name's John Pyle. And hello John, if you see this, I'll never forget it, pal. that's all the times are not glorious either, right? They're not glorious. They're dark times, bad times. And you know, you gotta be your best in dark times. In bad times.

I would say probably well in my last part of my career. as you know I'm doing some consulting on the side right now and helping some organizations, individuals to to win and sell.

At the end of the career, at the end of my career, I had worked for a different couple of different companies that were had low integrity, low honesty, that I couldn't tolerate. and so very well-known names in the industry. I'm not going to disclose those here, but it just wasn't my style because my customers always knew, I'm gonna tell you the truth, you may not like it, but it's gonna be the truth of what we can do, how we can get it done, and how much it's gonna cost.

They believe it and they feel it because if they don't feel it, they're not gonna buy from you. They're just not.

How you make a customer feel at the end of the day is how you buy it. Whether that's a refrigerator, a car, shoes, whatever it may be. You know, put yourself in those situations when you buy anything instead, well, that guy was a pain in the ass. I'm not buying from him, or whatever it may be. Didn't like his shoes, or there's a reason that not buying. And a lot of times it's not the price.

I think that's unique. I think that it it's not universal. It's not universal.

I think, you know, I'm sure you do it, I do it, you know. I I I applaud salespeople. I think it's a great career.

and I think that if you do it the right way, you can make a ton of dough. Ton of dough to do that regardless of what you're selling. Whatever it may be.

You could I mean they always said, you know, the fuck you money, right?

but you know what's enough, right? so you could but didn't want to. That this n not my character to to do that. some of the biggest challenges I had in in IT

I ran North and South America for DXC and put the digital program together. There are five of us reported to the chairman. super cool job. Super cool. And you know, if you think you've always been on call. I asked my new boss at that time because CSC bought HPE. And I said, what's your expectation of my response time to you? He goes, ten minutes.

Whether if you're not on an airplane, you better be calling me back in less than ten minutes. Night or day, seven days a week. So, you know, I don't know what doctors call us are, but I tell you that's on demand. Challenging,

We grew it's a twenty billion dollar company and you're, you know, on you know, reporting to the number two guy reports to the chairman. So you had a lot of pull, but a lot of you know, a lot of focus. There's a the old saying is the as a monkey goes up the flagpole, he has more opportunity to show his ass. you do, you're exposed, but we built great teams, built the digital practice,

for CPG, retail, manufacturing, aerospace. a lot of fun, travel the world. And you know, as you probably know, I've got five million plus miles in the air. And so that's that's a lot of buns on seat, right?

To do that. But the goodness is through all of that, my children has prospered, all highly educated and no debt.

You know, so that's the most rewarding thing for me. It is their success. and I'm glad I had the opportunity to to give them that.

Not at I

mean, we had some, you know, options that work out, right, at those roles. New jobs, new options. well there's also

That was pinnacle.

Well, I wasn't the chairman. I reported to the second in command in the second command, but he

said, if anyone has a problem with what you're doing, have call me. So and a lot of people had a problem, you know, with it because we are the new guys and there were two from HP and three from CSC. There were five of us that they picked out of, you know, two hundred and fifty thousand employees.

We were on the big deal team, you know, big deals. Now they wanted more people from sales orientation to do that. And so they picked five of us and we went and built the digital practice for DXC. Super cool, great job. and then went to handle our largest comp customer in the world. And so here in Cincinnati, I let you guess who that is,

So, it it was it was a pinnacle of responsibility and the pay was great too and but closing those big deals along the way were really the ones that I'll say padded the the the wallet or the the the portfolio.

no, I didn't. And success begates success, right? You you win deals and you start all of a sudden you get really famous pretty fast. because at a deal that's worth five hundred million dollars, let's say, you're getting a call from the chairman about once a week or more. When's it gonna close? Remember Comdisco?

you know, on those national broadcasts, how many salespeople do we have? A hundred maybe across the board?

And I remember the conference calls, well, great American insurance, great American insurance, radar when's it gonna close? You know, we're all like on pens and needles. you're on the radar and that moves the needle in stock price. if in fact you can make a public announcement you win five hundred million dollars in this particular industry and this particular geographic area in the world.

it's gonna move the needle and that's why they want it. It's not really the revenue, but it's the recognition, the press, and the stock movement in which it it enables.

I was pretty young

though, Brad. I was pretty young at that point. I was thirty-nine years ol I was thirty nine years old. Thirty-nine years old, whatever that is. Thirty years ago. Thirty-seven years ago.

Well, you know, because of my my upbringings, you know, as the described early on. and but the good thing is it it that really motivated me even more to do that. to prove that you know, someone with my background can do it to do that. athlete, not a great student, good student, not a great student.

But that they could do it and I could overachieve better than anyone else because of the way I approached, you know, every deal or every career it's a passion. It's a passion and it's an overall attitude, a mindset I think is the better word. And there are a couple of books out there that you know, mindset oriented and you know, that enable you to,

alter your mind, your thinking, and enable says, maybe, you know, you know, who sets the standard? I decided maybe I should set some set the standard when it comes to selling professionals. Because regardless of the role you have, you're always selling.

And selling yourself, selling your service, selling a product, selling your company. I knew I was gonna be a sales guy. I just knew it. my dad was a salesman, my brother was a salesman, well, what the hell? Maybe I'll be a salesman too.

And so I was just fortunate enough and lucky enough to be in the right spot, right time, with the right people and the right teams to win. And I'm very thankful, very thankful for that. For my humble boy from

Greencastle.

Very little difference. I I want to

be myself. Now, you know, it certainly if you and I go have beers, we're having a different s discussion.

But you can see at first hand. I didn't change from the office to the when we you would go to the ball game or whatever. That

was this. That's me. And when people become false, people can tell who you are and who you're not.

So be yourself. Be honest. High integrity. They if people like you, if they don't like you, they're not gonna buy from you.

Certainly I may do different things personally than I do professionally, but my personality is the same. I like to have fun, joke around, have humor in your in your approach. there's times to be serious and it's times to be funny or try to be funny. Make fun of yourself. I'm easy to make fun of myself. It's kind of an easy target.

Yeah, just be yourself. And you can tell that by the people that you associate with. And so, like yourself. You know, we're still friends today, you know what, twenty years later, twenty-five years later.

Yeah, well I mean people used to call

me from around the country, go, how are we getting paid this year?

I'm like, well, look at page number six or whatever it may be, you know, right? And people it was surprising how people don't take the time to understand how they're paid. Especially a sales guy or a woman at that point, right? Every deal. Every deal.

And but the thing, Brad, I think what made help me, I didn't sell the deal for the commission.

I knew it would come. Okay. I would maximize the sales commission, but not maximize it against the customer. Okay? So I would get paid. I knew I'd get paid, but I wasn't saying I was gonna try to sell something different than the customer wanted so I could get paid more. Never works. Never works. So understanding how I paid, not to be disappointed to when you sold it.

but to understand or set your expectations of what you're going to be paid for what the customer wants. That's the way I did it. Work and it worked. And it wor and it worked. And it worked.

Sure, I I think you know, I wasn't home every night. I know a number of times I fly through the night from India to come to a baseball practice.

I still led soccer teams, basketball teams, baseball teams for my, you know, my daughter, both my sons. You know, my middle son, you know, we did travel soccer like you're doing travel hockey.

so, you know, I got home, I'm full time dad. And that was nothing more and full time dad and husband. You know, I played golf maybe three times a year, maybe, where you gotta flip the switch when you're around.

they knew what I had to do and I they res I think they still respect me for that today. When they see this we'll see, right?

but no, they you know, they're very appreciative for what I have done. They've told me that many times for what their mother and I have done for them. And yeah, you miss it, it hurts. and at the same time, you know, I still live very modestly.

Okay. Live in the same house I bought thirty seven years ago. now fortunately we did as you know, just recently buy another vacation home, but it was one of those things that was due in time and wanted to do that and have a place to go and and continue to build great family memories.

Family comes first, man. Family comes first

and I used to fly home at you know, midnight, whatever, six AM, three AM, drive all night to be home for dance recitals or you know, whatever it may be. Whatever it may be, a golf tournament, you know, golf match, baseball game, whatever it may be.

for me to say no I think would be untruthful. but surprisingly, Brad, I didn't miss too many parent teacher conferences because I education's a big deal for me.

and I w you know, so always had my parents always said, Hey, better not mess up at school, right? We

kinda had the same rules of don't mess up at school because you know you're gonna take a little more grief at home than you do at school.

the when we made an agreement, my wife's name's Laura, as you know, and we made an agreement that I was gonna go for it, right? And she's done a and has done a wonderful job. And without her I couldn't have done it. and I would recommend like you'd having a great partner that you can share things with, understand with. It was a deal. You know, just like anything else.

is, you know, because of the efforts we both put in, then we're both, you know, benefiting from that today even. And even though I've been really basically retired for three years. So without her it would have been very, very, very difficult.

Well, you know, and and maybe I should think about it w on and that answer we can have another call, but maybe that's version two. But

where I came from. that I was we I didn't go to a big flashy school.

Wasn't a great football player, you know, so basketball, no. but baseball was a a dream for me. And when that dream was broken, that set a new, you know, course for me. I saw people in IBM that were

much smarter than me and more talented than me and had better backgrounds in you know better educations bet you know the whole nine yards a little kid you know that grew up blue collar in Greencastle Indiana with parents that are farmers and grandparents that had elementary school educations it doesn't happen very often

That you say, I'm gonna beat the odds. And that's where I got lucky. I beat the odds. I got out of a small town, went to a bigger town, got a little bit more, I'll say, wisdom under my feet about street wisdom and how things work on the street. And I put that into play. and so

through my college career, through my college education, through my early career is people would say things that I knew just weren't true in the way that worked in the street. And so having that little bit of wisdom of being able to go outside and understand the real world really helped me a lot. And putting in that into practice

and then, you know, my philosophies and beliefs are not real advanced as the things that I've showed you before. Right? so

That's gonna always said I I it's nothing scientific about success, about selling success. And I think you know the books that you read and I can show you the books on the you know on the on the shelf up here, you know, that that I've read, you know, that are really, really unique. And I get ideas from those. And you know, actually one of the best closures,

is was out of one of those books. It just so you can learn from others on how to close, how to do you know, unique types of things. And you know, I would just I just never gave up. I was against the odds. I that's the kind of way I looked at it. Now because I knew I had to make it up somehow. Whether that's attitude, mindset, tenaciousness,

understanding of people, understanding of the products, whatever it may be, I had to be better than most people, than

not everybody, just the people I'm competing against. So you know your competition and you know it you know and you know your customer, you know your customer better than your competition and you know yourself and you put that on the work, it's a winning solution.

no. No.

No. Never had.

as you know, she's the youngest and she's seen, you know, the whole gamut, right? and you know, she's a second grade teacher, right? And I think it's a great profession and she's d doing extremely well and they have this beautiful new home.

And she said, Dad, would you did you ever think you would have this kind of you know success? I go never in my wildest dreams, Maddie. Never. I didn't, but you had to keep going and see if the dreams could come true. And for me it's it's not a dream, but it it worked out really well so far.

Right, you never know what phase two might come up, Brad. But I'm enjoying what I'm doing right now. And but no, I I never dreamed that I could achieve what I achieved in the 44 years of IT selling. but it's a long time. but I'm glad I did it, and I'm glad that I had the family around me to make me successful.

Ha ha ha.

I saw him. I saw the guy.

I saw him.

well, what I let me tell you what I told him first, right?

So he's a southern gentleman, you know, he's got the suspenders, you know, black tie, bald head,

kind of thing. And actually I saw him at an IBM reunion about ten years ago. And at that time I was working for HP because you're still, you know, like he had a black X on you if you worked for Hewlett-Packard, if you w from IBM. And I walked up to him and I said, Jim,

I want to thank you for the opportunity you gave me. I said, you gave me a chance, a chance to be successful. And I took that chance and I ran with it. So the message is that he I mean he was had no idea what I was doing, right? Had no idea of any financial reward or success that I had had.

He goes, I'm glad for you. I'm really glad. He said, You had the heart. And that's what I saw. Did I have the capability? Who knows? I don't know. But he gave me a chance to succeed. And I said, I can't pass this chance up.

And that motivated me to do that. Like I said, I started at IBM. Three weeks later I got married. So I was off and running from that standpoint. but without that chance, this all would never happen.

Well, it's my pleasure

if you want to do a panel or anything like that, guy, that'd be great. I'll come to Chicago and do it. I'll I'll do it in Chicago with you.